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In 1875 and 1876, on two separate occasions, a young Dwight L. Moody and an elderly William Swan Plumer, took the stage together to dialogue about questions concerning salvation. In these dialogues, or colloquies, it was Moody who, in the role of an anxious inquirer, posed questions which Dr. Plumer answered, as crowds listened attentively.

The first event took place at Wannamaker’s Grand Depot in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on December 31, 1875. Moody had already preached to an audience of twelve thousand on the text: “How long halt yet between two opinions? If the Lord be God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him” (1 Kings 18:21). As was his custom, Moody followed his sermon with an inquiry meeting. But this meeting was special because of its format and the guest speaker involved.

To set the stage further, as it were, we turn first to William R. Moody’s The Life of Dwight L. Moody, pp. 269-270, in which he quotes Dr. Henry Clay Trumbull thus:

The central figure on the platform that New Year’s eve was one whose appearance and bearing were most impressive. The Rev. Dr. William S. Plumer, then a professor of the Columbia Theological Seminary in South Carolina, and who nearly forty years before was moderator of the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church, was a figure that would compel reverence and regard in any gathering. Massive in frame, towering in stature, venerable in appearance, with snowy hair and flowing beard, he suggested Michael Angelo’s Moses.
Mr. Moody was on this occasion represented, not at the teacher, but as the inquirer. Dr. Plumer stood out as the teacher, to whom the younger Moody came with his questionings of heart. Few men, if any, in the world better knew the anxious cravings and doubts of the inquiring soul than Moody, as he had met with them in his varied evangelistic labors. Few trained theologians could have more wisely and simply answered those inquirers than the large-brained, large-hearted, large-framed, venerable patriarch before whom Moody stood.
The whole scene evidenced the simplicity of trust in God as the sinner came to him through Jesus Christ, in his need and in his confidence. The theologian could give the answer that the anxious soul longed for. Mr. Moody and Dr. Plumer were at one in this interview.

Moody then introduced his friend and partner in this endeavor to the audience at nearly midnight with these words:

Here is the Rev. Dr. Plumer, of South Carolina. He is seventy-four years old. He has been living on borrowed time for four years. For fifty-five years he has been sitting at the feet of Jesus. I’m going to put him on the witness-stand, and question him before you all. Dr. Plumer, will you take the pulpit?

We have a transcript of this and a subsequent “colloquy,” and the text shows a back-and-forth dialogue that left a deep impression on its hearers. We are told that “It was a most impressive service. Many a soul seemed to feel himself the questioner, and to listen as for his life to the answer.”

Act 1 begins:

Dr. Plumer — I was to give a year-text to this assembly. It is from the 73d Psalm: “Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire besides thee.”
Mr. Moody — Dr. Plumer, we often speak of “conviction.” What is conviction?
Dr. Plumer — Conviction is a clear persuasion that a thing is true. Religious conviction is a clear, settled persuasion of five things: First, That I am ignorant, and need instruction. Second, That I am guilty, and deserve wrath, and need pardon. Third. That my heart is vile, and must be renewed. Fourth. That my condition is miserable; I am “wretched and miserable and poor.” Fifth. That I am helpless; I am without strength; I can not save myself; I can not think a good thought without divine grace."
Mr. Moody — What is the use of conviction?
Dr. Plumer — The use of conviction is not to punish a man for his sins; nor is it to make him any better. The devils in hell have been under awful conviction for a long time, and not one of them is any better. The sole object of conviction is to shut up the soul to the faith of Jesus. The sole object of conviction is to bring the sinner to accept salvation by atoning blood.
Mr. Moody — Is any given amount of distress necessary to genuine conviction?
Dr. Plumer — Lydia seems to have had no dis tress; we read of none. God opened her heart, and she attended to the things spoken of Paul; but the jailer of Philippi would probably not have accepted Christ without some alarm. If you will accept the Son of God, you need have no trouble; there is nothing in mere trouble that sanctifies the soul.
Mr. Moody — Well, doctor, what is conversion?
Dr. Plumer — Glory be to God! there is such a thing as conversion. If there was not, everlasting chains and darkness would be our doom. To be converted is to turn from self, self-will, self-righteousness, all self confidence, and from sin in every shape, and to be turned to Christ. The turning-point in a man's conversion is his acceptance of Jesus Christ; then he closes in with Christ and gives Him all his confidence.
Mr. Moody — Why must a sinner come to Christ for salvation ?
Dr. Pumer — Because there is salvation in none else. All the angels in heaven and all the saints in heaven and earth can not save one sinner. He must come to the Saviour. I will tell you why. Here are quintillions of tons of atmospheric air: why does not that support life without your respir ing it? You must breathe it or you die. For the same reason you must make Christ yours, or you perish notwithstanding what He has done. The sight of a river will never quench thirst, and the sight of food will never satisfy hunger. You must come to Christ, and make His salvation yours.
Mr. Moody — Can a man be saved here to-night, before twelve o'clock — saved all at once?
Dr. Plumer — Why not? In my Bible I read of three thousand men gathered together one morning — all of them murderers, their hands stained with the blood of the Son of God. They met in the morning, and before night they were all baptized members of Christ. God added to the church in those days such as should be saved. If you are ever saved, there must be a moment when you accept Christ and renounce the world.
Mr. Moody — What is repentance?
Dr. Plumer — It is turning to God with abhorrence of sin and cleaving to Christ with purpose pf obedience. A man truly repents of his sins when he does not commit the sins he has repented of; therefore saving repentance always terminates in purity of life and in reformation. A thorough change of heart is followed by a thorough change of character.
Mr. Moody — How can I know that I am saved?
Dr. Plumer — By the fact that God is true. “Let God be true, but every man a liar.” If I accept Jesus Christ, it is not Mr. Moody's word, nor Mr. Sankey's, nor Dr. Newton's; it is the Word of the living God, whose name is Amen. “He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life.”
Mr. Moody — What if I haven't got faith enough?
Dr. Plumer — Glory be to God! if I can touch the hem of my Saviour's garment I shall be saved. A little faith is as truly faith as a great deal of faith. A little coal of fire in the ashes is as truly fire as the glowing heat of the furnace. Jesus says not, If you have great faith you will be saved, but “He that believeth shall be saved.” Oh! come and trust Him fully! Give Him all your confidence, and if your faith is not as strong as it ought to be, cry as the disciples did, “Lord, increase our faith.”

Interior view of the Roman Hippodrome in New York City.

A subsequent event took place on March 30, 1876 at P.T. Barnum’s Great Roman Hippodrome in New York City, the precursor to Madison Square Garden. Act 2 commences at 8 pm, following the conclusion of a convention.

At eight o’clock the house was filled, every seat being occupied, and hundreds standing. Mr. Moody, followed by Dr. Plumer, of South Carolina, entered. The usual devotional exercises were held. Mr. Moody then arose, and said: “The exercises of this evening will vary from those commonly had at this hour. I shall not preach, but shall call on Dr. Plumer to answer many questions of great importance; these questions relate to the way of life. Dr. Plumer has long been studying the Word of God. He will please take the stand.
Mr. Moody — Dr. Plumer, I am living in the world, with eternity before me. I am accountable to God; I have broken His law. What must I do to be saved?
Dr. Plumer — There is but one safe answer to that question. It sounds out from the jail at Philippi: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Acts xvi. 31. That is the substance of all the Scriptures on this subject summed up in a few words.
Mr. Moody — Is faith in Christ essential to salvation?
Dr. Plumer — So says the Lord Jesus Christ: “He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John iii. 18.
Mr. Moody — Many in the inquiry-room tell us that we are making too much of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Dr. Plumer — If they mean that we are making too much of the Lord Jesus Christ himself, that cannot be so; for He is All in All; the First and the Last; the Author and Finisher of Salvation; the one Mediator between God and man; the Prophet, Priest, and King of His Church. If they mean that we are making too much of faith itself, that cannot be so, unless we go beyond the Scriptures. The words faith and believe occur in the New Testament about five hundred times; and in a large number of cases salvation is clearly connected with believing. Jesus taught us this when asked, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” He answered, “This is the work of God that ye believe on the name of Him whom He hath sent,” and, “If ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins.” John vi. 29; viii. 24.
Mr. Moody — Does our faith, or our want of faith, decide our relations to God the Father?
Dr. Plumer — The Scriptures so affirm: “Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father;” “He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath the Father and the Son;” “He that hateth me, hateth my Father also.” I John ii. 23; 2 John 9; John xv. 23. No man can refuse to confess that Christ, the Son of God, is come in the flesh, without denying and dishonoring God the Father.
Mr. Moody — Is true faith wrought in the heart by the Holy Ghost alone?
Dr. Plumer — Paul says: “The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” and so on; and, “No man can say that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.” Galatians v. 22; I Cor. xii. 3. Elsewhere he says, “Faith is of the operation of God;" and John says, “Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God; and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is not of God.”
Mr. Moody — Is there no substitute for faith in Christ Jesus?
Dr. Plumer — None whatever. The want of faith mars everything. I remember John Calvin thus puts it: “The annihilation of faith is the abolition of the promises.” Many Scriptures justify this remark. In the great commission given by Christ to the preachers of His Gospel, He says: “He that believeth not shall be damned.” Mark xvi. 16. These words are awſul, and they are true: “He that believeth not shall be damned;” so says the Son of God, our final Judge.

With many other questions, on both occasions, did Moody draw out from Plumer the “way of life,” that is, a gospel understanding of repentance and faith and salvation, as given to us in the Scriptures. The rest of the dialogue is given in Great Questions Answered: Two Colloquies Between D.L. Moody and Wm. S. Plumer (1876), available to read here. The drama of these two men, in the roles of anxious inquirer and wise teacher, in two different locations, is played out in that remarkable volume, and is well worth the read. Plumer acquitted himself with distinction in giving Moody and his 19th century hearers sound Biblical answers to questions of great importance, and readers of the 21st century will profit too by consideration of these dialogues.

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